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  1. tu'e ,,, tu'u (1)
  2. No subject (7)
  3. "Good morning!" (2)
  4. Hauter (1)
  5. How does "co" work? (4)
  6. No subject (4)
  7. coi (doi?) rodo (5)
  8. How I Think of Lojban Bridi Structure (1)
  9. No subject (1)
  10. "di'u" v. "go'i" (1)

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No.526   [Reply]

Can a "tu'e" scope begin like this:

.i .ui bu'u lo panka tu'e ...

>> No.541  

Not sure right now. This might be helpful:

http://www.google.com/search?q=tu%27e+site%3Ajbotcan.org%2Fcllc



No.420   [Reply]

Is {melbi le gerku lo nanmu zo'e} an observative? Is it even grammatically correct?!

Can I use {zo fu} to refer to the last terbri of a selbri that does not have five terbri? One should be able to recognize that {zo fu} refers to the last place of any gimselbri. Example: {tavla fu la .lojban.}

4 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.458  

>>455

What does do'e mean?

>> No.481  

"Observatives" really aren't anything special. They're just normal bridi that have {zo'e} in the x1. That's it. So {melbi le gerku lo nanmu zo'e} is the same as {zo'e melbi le gerku lo nanmu zo'e}, that is, "something is beautiful to the dog, with beautiful aspect the woman, by an unspecified aesthetic standard". Pretty broken.

>> No.540  

>>481
Bump for important truth.



No.489   [Reply]

... in Lojban? I've seen some which use "a'o", but it sometimes sounds a little bit too explicit. Would simply "doido'u cerni" or even just "cerni" work?

>> No.499  

That sounds more like "Hey! It's morning." It seems too neutral for a greeeting. But I guess something like "zabna cerni" could work. "It's a nice morning [because I met you]", for example.

But I suppose anything at all can become a greeting just by force of habit. If it becomes a ritual to make the remark "it's morning" when you meet someone in the morning, it becomes a kind of greeting.

>> No.539  

{za'a zabna cerni a'o} seems like "I observe it's a favourable morning I hope [for you]"

I think actually wanting "good morning" in the sense of a greeting ("Hail!") rather than a well-wishing ("I hope your morning is well") is malglico.



No.506   [Reply]

What does "hauter/rank" mean in attitudinals (ga'i)?

>> No.538  

It means "arrogance" or "feeling pride and superiority".

Notice the definition:

attitudinal modifier/honorific: hauteur - equal rank - meekness; used with one of lower rank.

It means that you are figuratively higher or lower than someone.

And the "see also" for the cmavo entry is:

See also {gapru}, {cnita}.

http://jbotcan.org/jbobaurei/?q=ga%27i+gapru+cnita

{gapru} is "above", {cnita} is "below"



No.517   [Reply]

Does "co" make everything following it part of the tanru? Or just the next (one) word? How does it differ from a normal tanru in meaning? With a jek?

1 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.529  

>>525

Can I say "[melbi co mi tricu]"? What about "[melbi tricu co xamgu]"?

>> No.531  

>>529

"mi", which is a sumti, cannot come after "co", which joins only words that can be a selbri.

"melbi tricu co xamgu" is grammatical. It's read as

((melbi tricu) co (xamgu))

, and is identical in meaning with

(xamgu ke (melbi tricu))

or

(xamgu (melbi bo tricu))

>> No.537  

Inversion of tanru: http://jbotcan.org/cllc/c5/s8.html



No.482   [Reply]

Is there any recorded oral conversation in Lojban?

1 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.524  

there are recordings of STWUR (Story Time With Uncle Robin) on the wiki, that may be interesting for you. Someone really recently brought up getting back into the habit of mumble-chatting every now and then, which would be awesome. (even though i don't know of any possibility to record mumble sessions ;( )

>> No.535  

Indeed, we have Mumble sessions once in a while. It should be more regular, I think. Makes me want to practise more when I see how rubbish I am in real-time. zo'o ru'e

Perhaps we (read: I) can research how to record Mumble sessions.

>> No.536  

Mumble link is here btw: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Mumble&bl=y



No.513   [Reply]

Shouldn't "coi rodo" be "coi doi rodo"?

2 posts omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.520  

coi rodo works as well, because all cmavo of COI take a cmene after them; it's even in the definition of DOI that it can be elided after COI.

you know when a vocative ends, when the cmene after it is complete or you have a terminator (if that helps you ;) )

>> No.533  

No, it shouldn't be coi doi rodo. It can be, but it is more than necessary.

# All of these are valid uses of cmavo of selma'o COI

  • coi do
  • ki'e do
  • doi do
  • coi djan
  • ki'e djan
  • doi djan
  • coi ro do
  • ki'e ro do
  • doi ro do
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>> No.534  

Useful vocatives: http://jbotcan.org/jbobaurei/?q=vocative



No.530   [Reply]

I will try to include a picture sometime, but I am not extremely profficient in such an art. I do not know if I am being terribly clear, it makes sense to me, so ask me to clarify or re-explain a point.

[zo mlatu] is a brivla (relation-word). It may function as a bridi, selbri, or sumti. Think of bridi as big metal blocks with little square holes in them. The whole block encompasses every aspect of the relationship. Stamped on the block is an identification-word, the selbri. This tells what precisely is the relation of the block, but not what is being related. The holes (really, they are indents, in my mind) are terbri, they describe what may be related. Sumti may be thought of as little blocks, of a slightly different colour. They have stamps on them too. These stamps are the identification-words, basically what the sumti is (named, described as, etc.) Fill the big block in with these little blocks, and you have a complete bridi. But, if you do not, a solid wedge gets stuck in each terbri hole (this is by default); this is [zo zo'e]. This makes the terbri hole filled up without giving it any real meaning. If the block is completely filled with such wedges, then the selbri basically becomes the entire bridi, because it is the only thing described on the block.

The sumti blocks that fill in the terbri of the bridi actually have little holes in them too (yes, these holes are terbri). The first one is filled by a gadri, which tells you how that sumti is to be interpreted. The sumti block is stamped, as said before, with an identification-word- which is the relationship between the gadri and the other terbri’s sumti. So it (the stamp) is a selbri. We have now just discovered that sumti are really there own little bridi! But unlike the previous bridi, when all the terbri holes are filled up (one way or another), the relationship does not end. That entire meaning is rolled up and act as an argument for the main bridi (or the sumti’s terbri holes are filled in, and then the entire sumti block is slid into a terbri hole of the next, more encompassing bridi). Even the things that fill in the terbri of a sumti have holes. So the process may continue indefinitely (or until, as the L4B says (or I am attempting to paraphrase, at least), your brain overheats).

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>> No.532  

>>530

Oh, and sumtcita drill new holes into a bridi block and write a label/address beneath them.



No.527   [Reply]

Why does one have to use '[loi]' instead of '[lo]' for #-fu'i-# things? Why should it not have a number after it? What do the numbers in front mean? What is the difference between '[le]' and '[lo]' and '[loi]'? What are the differences between '[le]' and 'the' & '[lo]' and 'a'/'some'? How do the grouping "articles" work?

By the way, am I correct in saying that '[le]' is a cmavo and '[mlatu]' is a sumti?

Thanks, I have a difficult time in understanding L4B. I am new to Lojban, so please go along with me. I also am not a native speaker of English, so if some of my typing does not make sense, I will happily try to explain my thoughts (preferably in French).

Again, merci bien.

>> No.528  

>>527

Votre anglais est superbe.

I will leave the grouping questions to another time, and probably another person (for I do not entirely feel comfortable with them yet). I presume that you are referring to [zo lu'o] and [zo lu'a]?

Anyway, let's start from the beginning.

le = that or those (left to context for number) which each are desvribed as...by me

If I say "[le gerku]", I am saying "That which I describe as one or more individual dogs". Usually, this refers to something already stated (similar to "A dog walked into the barn. The dog chased the chickens.") It is not always going to be word-for-word accurate with the definition of the word that follows. If I see a person from a distance and say "the woman", and it later turns out to be a man, then I am not really wrong. The person, who is a man, was taken to be a woman by me at first. Really, as long as your definition of the brivla is convoluted enough, [zo le] can be used.

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No.507   [Reply]

What is the difference between "di'u" and "go'i"? Is it that "di'u" can be an entire utterance, id est a group of bridi expressed by someone?

Also, how do you remember the different meanings of the words of selma'o GOhA based on their letters ("go'i" = last bridi, "go'e" = penultimate bridi; 'e' is before 'i')?

>> No.523  

{di'u} is a sumti, whereas {go'i} is a selbri; {di'u} refers to the last utterance as a sumti, whereas {go'i} repeats the last bridi.



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